Comments on: Old Dad Chiro: D.D. Palmer’s Discovery of Chiropractic

By: Steve Agocs, D.C.

Steve Agocs, D.C. — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:49:20 +0000

Here is the reference, from Chiropractic History, way back in 1997. Why this myth keeps on trucking is testament to the power of urban legends!

Hart JF. Did D.D. Palmer visit A.T. Still in Kirksville? 1997;17(2):49-55.

By: Steve Agocs, D.C.

Steve Agocs, D.C. — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:48:14 +0000

Both early chiropractic and osteopathy have common ground on the type of manipulation practiced in the bonesetting community. Neither one was doing anything original. As DD clearly states in his 1910 textbook, it was using the spinouses and transverse processes as levers that was different.

As for Robert, I’d forgotten all about this discussion, so I apologize about the references. I have three offices and journals, books, and resources strewn through all of them, but I will find the publication, which appeared in Chiropractic History, a peer-reviewed journal, which dispels the MYTH that DD was a student of Still’s. They met one time at a revival for Spiritualists on the Mississippi River. But, it is a common myth that is still widespread belief in the osteopathic community (saw an article written by a DO here in Kansas City perpetuating it), so I understand your ignorance in the matter.

By: Patrick Montgomery, D.C., F.A.S.A.

Patrick Montgomery, D.C., F.A.S.A. — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:10:10 +0000

Getting back to the original question about where did Dr. D.D. Palmer adjust Mr. Harvey Lillard, I have to say that I side with Dr. D.D. Palmer’s assertation. To say that Dr. B.J. Palmer saw his dad deliver that first adjustment to a different area of the spine while the son (B.J.) was only 13 years old at the time and had not studied the human frame at that age, is probably a stretch and maybe self serving to his theory in 1934 that you have to concentrate on the upper cervical spine.

By: Dr. Brandon Harshe

Dr. Brandon Harshe — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:53:51 +0000

Great points Zach. I completely forgot about that book about “Old Moves.” Obviously general chiropractic and osteopathic manipulations are one and the same, though each one varies in their philosophy. But neither can claim to be the first to use spinal manipulations. So we got that covered. But you were spot on about UC chiropractic. Nothing like it in the world anywhere.

Great discussions though. I’ve really enjoyed it!

By: Jason Blackketter, D.C., M.A.R.E., B.A.

Jason Blackketter, D.C., M.A.R.E., B.A. — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:04:16 +0000

Dr. Z Ward, nice to hear from you on this topic. I’ve always appreciated your input / ideas / analysis!

Sort of funny how things can go round and round a point and yet never really settle on an agreement, and BTW agreeing to disagree doesn’t really resolve anything IMHO…especially since the original thing we possibly “disagreed about” isn’t even a thing. See my post above for details on what a chiropractic adjustment is, why it is done, etc. and how that “thing” is not manipulative medicine regardless when or from where the ideas came.
http://genesis-chiropractic.com/1st-chiropractic-adjustment-vs-osteopathy.html

So, I wanted to thank you for your reminder of the “Old Moves” text that I loosely referenced. And also you were bringing together some of the Big Idea issues about the nervous system with the added ideas about restoration and inflammation.

The Palmers were way ahead of their time in the science and philosophy and eventually the art (application, technique, manual moves, etc). I elaborated and expanded on this with many more links on my own weblog to further clarify some of the points made in this stream of comments about the uniqueness of D.D. and B.J.’s work and why the upper cervical spine is key to unlocking the body’s innate potential to live well and healthy.
http://genesis-chiropractic.com/the-1st-chiropractic-adjustment.html

Re: Robert’s comments/experiences (and those of many others who enjoy and benefit from osteopathic manipulations) — None of our boisterous talk about chiropractic takes anything away from the profound contributions of osteopathy or A.T. Still.
We are simply seeking to educate and give credit to the founders and developers of something we hold dear. It is not for personal gain, but for broader recognition and enlightenment for society about the unique vitalistic vision and original ideas that birthed the chiropractic profession.

It WAS different.
Period.
And that’s okay…regardless anyone’s personal feelings or experiences or beliefs. It is not a competition.

It still IS different today; but only rarely, and unfortunately you need to seek out the few scattered proponents of the early truth because the principle has been muddied and mixed and maligned.

Dr. B Harshe – thanks again to you for this forum allowing us to shed light on some of these things.

By: Zachary Ward, D.C.

Zachary Ward, D.C. — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:11:55 +0000

Regardless of whether AT Still influenced D.D. or not, the unique hypothesis of disturbed nervous system tone was way ahead of its time. D.D. was talking about inflammation a hundred years before our modern health care experts. This hypothesis lead to an investigation of the relationship of nerve tracts to bony canals, which ultimately lead to the importance of the upper cervical spine and the notion of specific adjusting.

(Interestingly enough B.J. Palmer has a series of illustrations of manipulative “moves” in a book entitled “An exposition of Old Moves” which is basically an argument for the use of the toggle recoil method of adjusting in a full spine context. He has multiple areas of the book where he has taken a photograph of himself setting up on a patient for some move so the reader gets a sense of what it is. And then he says: “This move is similar (or stolen from) to osteopaths…see such and such book” usually written by an osteopath).

D.D.’s Restoration principle combined with x-ray lead to a variety of systems of analysis based on different theories of articular disturbance of the UC spine.

While you can get a great thoracic release and great cranial work from a modern osteopath, many of whom are very skilled in their art, you will not find them taking three dimensional views of the upper cervical spine and adjusting down a vector for the purpose of correcting misalignment components of an atlas subluxation.

This is simply not a variation of osteopathy.

By: Dr. Brandon Harshe

Dr. Brandon Harshe — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:27:12 +0000

I will add that if osteopathy has helped you, then stick with that. Chiropractic is not for everyone, and I understand that. We should have talked about this when we were in the same ward together… would have been fun discussions.

By: Dr. Brandon Harshe

Dr. Brandon Harshe — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:00:21 +0000

All I can say is that if those 8 chiropractors are treating pain locally, yes, that is a bad representation of chiropractic.

But hey, I can agree to disagree… Nothing wrong with that.

Pretty impressive about that mechanic, though.

By: Robert Dennis

Robert Dennis — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:40:43 +0000

Well, Brandon;
You can’t possibly believe that the 8 or so chiropractors that I saw in that 18 year period all happened to be sub par when based on the chiropractic community as a whole. What are the odds that they would all be “bad” representatives – and I say that comparatively speaking, because a few of them were exceptional, such as a blind man I went to a few times in Windsor, MO (he certainly couldn’t read an X-ray).
And your car analogy actually isn’t very good. The very best mechanics I ever met were part of a family in Killeen, TX who could just start a car and sense what was wrong by the vibrations they felt and sounds they heard – one of the sons went on to win every mechanic contest sponsored by Ford from diagnosing a personal vehicle to working on an Indy qualifier.
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree – you with your chiropractor’s dedication,
and me with my comparative experience as a patient of both DO’s and DC’s.
That said, the original point of my blog message was the FACT that AT Still developed and perfected a manipulative approach to alleviating pain and healing the body decades before Palmer “discovered” chiropractic, which is just a variation on those techniques.

By: Dr. Brandon Harshe

Dr. Brandon Harshe — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 03:33:13 +0000

Robert, having busted my butt through chiropractic school, and having gone through the same amount of sciences that an M.D. or a D.O. goes through, I can tell you that your statement about a D.O. having superior understanding of the human body compared to a chiropractor is flat out wrong.

The chiropractors you went to in the past, honestly, weren’t doing a very good job in letting you, the patient, know what chiropractic truly is. Treating the area of chief complaint is NOT what chiropractic is about. Unfortunately, you had the misfortune of coming across chiropractors that didn’t really understand chiropractic. If they did, they would not have cared about diagnosing your local pain, but would have focused on addressing the overall function of your nervous system instead.

As far as taking x-rays go, I would question the osteopath who DOES NOT take x-rays. I have as good an understanding of the muscles, joints, ligaments, and tendons as any osteopath. My palpation skills are as good as any osteopath, and I can move bones as good, if not better, than any osteopath. However, what osteopath can determine the unique assymetry of the vertebrae of the spine by palpation alone? You have been duped into thinking that a D.O. has superior understanding of the body by not taking x-rays. In my opinion, they are cutting corners. Taking x-rays is called being responsible. You wouldn’t work on your car without lifting up the hood, and I won’t adjust anybody without taking x-rays. Same concept.

In our office, we focus on the upper cervical spine where the Atlas (C1) is the most freely movable vertebra in the entire spine… and also because of its close proximity to the brain stem (for example, Christopher Reeve shattered his C1 and damaged his spinal cord near the brain stem… remember he had lung disfunction and died of heart failure… 2 organ systems controlled by the brain stem). We take specific x-rays to measure the exact misalignment of C1 down to a 1/4 of a degree. Based on that, we perform a specific adjustment to restore C1 to its normal position… and people get a lot better. Their health problems, from low back pain, to allergies, to depression, have gotten better in our office. What osteopath has the skill or understanding to do that without an x-ray and without prescribing a pill?

Don’t get me wrong, I know there are great D.O.s out there (Dr. Mercola), but there also great chiropractors out there as well. I’m sorry you experienced chiropractic from someone who didn’t know what they were doing. I’m afraid that happens far too much in our profession.

I mean this with all respect, Robert. You’re a good guy and I just wanted to briefly clear up your understanding of chiropractic.